Joe Avianne Details Designing Chains For Bobby Shmurda, Lil Pump, Cam'ron & More

Joe Avianne doesn’t just make jewelry; he makes pieces, and is critical and conscious of everything he creates. Following a long line of esteemed hip-hop jewelers coming out of New York, Avianne got his start working with artists like 50 Cent, Jadakiss, and Jam Master Jay, and artists have remained loyal to him thanks, in large part, to the careful intention behind his work. Over time, Avianne & Co has become the “go-to jewelers of hip-hop,” and the creatives behind some of modern-day music’s most iconic pieces. The world’s first mechanical pendant—a  world-record-breaking spinning globe, crafted for Cam’ron— is one of them. Pharrell’s multi-colored Gucci link chain is another. Search Avianne on Google and you’ll see his name dropped in dozens of rap songs, from Future’s “Wicked” (“I purchased Avianne, now she lit”) to 21 Savage’s verse on Travis Scott’s “Outside” (“I’m draped in Avianne, I ain’t got a deal”). Prolific jewelers like Elliot Eliantte got their start apprenticing at Avianne & Co’s Diamond District workshop. Howard Ratner, Adam Sandler’s distinctive role in his 2019 film Uncut Gems, was modeled after Avianne himself. Architecting that kind of legacy required Avianne to employ a few of his persisting principles: to keep the family close, nurture organic relationships, and push the envelope.

From his office nestled in the back of Avianne & Co’s iconic storefront, Joe Avianne spoke with HNHH to reflect on his journey and legacy, working up from helping with his father’s business in jewelry manufacturing to architecting his own trailblazing jewelry empire. Among Joe’s regular clients is rapper Bobby Shmurda, whose infamous Avianne & Co necklace went viral after his release from prison back in February. Here, Joe discusses the creative process that went into designing Shmurda’s jewels— as well as the intention, love, and care that each of his pieces requires. 

Interview edited slightly for clarity.

HNHH: How are you doing today? How are you feeling?

Joe Avianne: Doing good, I'm feeling good as well. New week, new outlook. It's always good to be around rather than not be around. 

What does a day in your life look like, heading Avianne & Co?

So today is Monday. My 13 year old and my 10 year old, we have a 5 AM wake-up call. We go in to see a trainer, specifically picked for their sport so that they can have the strength and conditioning that they need. I instilled into my children that the mind is a muscle as well, and you need to train that muscle. You need to be able to see what you want out of what you're doing— visualize it so you can manifest it to reality. I also run an Avianne fitness program, where I have kids that are physically, mentally, and emotionally trained for free. I love to work out. That's how I maintain my level of competitiveness. It also keeps me young. 

But before starting my workout, I come to work. I have about 30 employees. I set them all straight. I'll round them up, get my production team going, look over my designs with my design team, give my input there, open up the shop. I'm up there in front, and then I have my production team that's downstairs, so I oversee all of that as well. Then I go upstairs to my eCommerce division, where I have about five, six salesmen up there, reaching out, receiving emails, making phone calls, and targeting clients that are up-and-coming, since I'm an older guy. I try to stay in tune with everything, but it's pretty difficult with a lot going on in my life. I've got my son and my nephew that have joined the business, and they're in tune with what's going on. They run the media team. 

It seems like your day-to-day is super busy! Before we go into what you've been working on recently, let's go back to the beginning. You grew up in New York and were raised in an immigrant family household. What was your upbringing like? 

I grew up in East New York, Brooklyn. We moved to the United States from Uzbekistan. I was pretty young, around four. I'm one of four children. I'm the eldest, so it was an early task for me to be a leader in my house, because my parents—we're an immigrant family. I really never saw my mom and my dad because they always worked multiple jobs. We lived in Crown Heights for a year, moved around, then eventually ended up in section 8 housing in Starrett City because we couldn't afford to live anywhere else. Then we finally got admitted to subsidized housing. I grew up in a predominantly Black community. People like me were the minorities, and being the minority comes with a lot of different issues in itself. We were picked on, we were made fun of, and since I'm the oldest, not only do I have my own battles to fight— I also had my brother's and my two sisters' battles to fight. That's why I started doing judo. It's a martial art. That way, I could better learn to protect myself. 

I know you were on track to be an athlete before you transitioned into the jewelry-making industry. Talk about how that came to fruition. 

After starting judo, I met my coach, a two-time Olympian. I trained my ass off, rose in the ranks, and I became the top contender in my weight category. The head Olympic judo coach came and picked 6 of us from our team, and brought us over to Colorado Springs, Colorado to live and train at the Olympic Training Center, because we were top in the nation. Having moved out there and trained for three years—I was training for the 2000 Olympic Games—I ended up becoming an alternate, missed my opportunity by a little bit. At that moment in time, I had met a girl, who’s the mother of all my children now, and I fell in love with her. 

When she got pregnant with my eldest son, I had an epiphany. $500 in stipend a month wasn't going to cut it, supporting me and my newborn baby, so I decided to quit my sport and get into the business for myself. I'm a man of pride, I have strong will. I worked multiple jobs. I worked at Dollar Rent-A-Car, cleaning cars, I sold cutlery, I sold cars—not knowing that these experiences were building my character to where it is now. This is my 21st year running my own operation. Everything that I've learned going through those trials and tribulations, I instilled into my business, including the hard work ethic in my sport: give it all you've got. The more you put in, the more you get out. First one in, last one out. You can rest when the wheels fall off. Get it while you're young. Just all that hustle, you know? Having done that with my sport, I ended up meeting a lot of athletes along the way, a lot of entertainers along the way. When I retired from judo, I never looked back. 

And I have to give credit to my now-wife. For every successful man, there has to be a strong woman in that man's life. She endured a lot, and never had any sort of disbelief in me. She always supported my actions, my moves, and my decisions. If it wasn't for my old lady just holding it down, I don't know if I would be where I'm at today. 

What were the technicalities involved with building up your business? 

When I opened up my doors, I didn't know I was going to be where I'm at right now. I came to the street, looked around, and said, "There's a lot of ladies' merchandise here. I don't want to do that. There's too much competition." I was a new kid on the block, and the only way people were going to come see me is if I did something different. I seen one other person doing what I really wanted to do, which was deal with athletes and entertainers, and at the time, that person was Jacob the Jeweler. I decided to utilize him as my role model: see what he was doing, see what moves he was making, and try to make my own moves, doing it my way. I ended up connecting my whole network over the past five to seven years and moving along—meeting people, greeting people. Coming back to now, this is where we're at. We built the brand. 

What does jewelry itself mean to you? 

Jewelry in itself speaks volumes for you without you having to even open your mouth. if you walk into a club, or a room, or anywhere for that matter, people are already sizing you up, whether you have jewelry on or not. They're looking at what you're wearing. They're looking at how you're carrying yourself, how you did your hair, how you're smelling. They're looking at your jewelry. All that sh*t is speaking for you before you open up your mouth to say one word. 

What sets Avianne & Co apart? 

We're one of the most demanded brands when it comes down to customizing. For example, customers come to me and they say, "Joe, I want you to make me my name." I'm like, "Your name? You just want me to make your basic nameplate?" And they'll be like, "Yeah, I want you to make me a basic nameplate." I'll say, "Alright... you know, I can do that for you, but you know why you came here, right? There's a reason why you're here. The reason why you're here is because you understand that we do quality, and I will never steer you in the wrong direction as far as creativity is concerned." It's not like I'm sitting here trying to sell standard pieces, because those pieces, anybody and everybody can do. Just like I used to get up and I used to have a focus on training and winning certain competitions, I have a goal to come into work, touch certain pieces, and go in for certain people to make sure I win. I don't have to have a platinum record every month, but what I can deliver is six pieces a year. That's one piece every two months that I can focus on and make sure gets done, that makes noise—everlasting noise, not just noise for that moment. 

I'm filming my own documentary, and I asked Cam’ron in an interview, "What made you come to us?" At that time, Jacob the Jeweler was f*cking daddy. He said, "Yo, you guys were just like me. Young, starting off… and I was starting off. I wanted to build with somebody from the bottom, that way we could both build together and get to where we both needed to go. At the same time, it was your guys' personalities." He was like, “Yeah, Jacob was a name, but he wasn't a personality.” You can't sit there and chill with him. You can't smoke with him, or invite him to the studio, or be personable. And his prices were out of this world. Then Cam'ron goes, "And look at you guys today. I knew you guys had something about you. I knew it. You guys had that fire even then." 

What was your first breakthrough piece? 

Our first piece that really made a lot of noise was the first mechanical piece of jewelry, and that was for Cam'ron. At that time, nobody was thinking about that. Nobody even thought about it. He came in. He was like, "Yo, I want a globe, Joe. I want you guys to make me a globe." [Laughs] I said, "A globe?" He said, "Yeah, and I want you to make that globe spin." I was like, "Alright, bet." We ended up taking that project on. We made two of those globes before the third one became the one. In all reality, we didn't get any profitability off that transaction, but what it did give us is this conversation that we're having today. That's called notability. That's called marketing. For me, that was well worth it beyond the money. We ended up crafting that piece, and that piece is spoken about today. You know who has that piece now? Lil Yachty has that piece. They took off "Cam'ron Harlem World", and they just put "Yachty's World" on it. That piece never got destroyed because you can't destroy history. You keep something like that.  

Did you know when you made that pendant that you were making something record-breaking? Or were you just in your element, in your zone, just doing as an artist does?

I knew. Let's go to Blueface's collar, for example. I knew that was a hit. There's one on the planet. He was the best person for it. I designed it, I pitched it, and then sold it. I invested my own money. It's not like he said, "Hey, Joe, start on this order." None of the customers are like, "Hey Joe, here's $200,000. Make me something." It's me putting up my $200,000, making something, and then pitching it, knowing it's gonna move. I know it. My line is, "If you're not gonna buy it, this sh*t ain't meat. It ain't gonna rot. It's gold and diamonds, somebody's gonna buy this sh*t." I would just rather it be you because I thought of you when I put it together. Ultimately, everything sells. It's a matter of time and to whom.

I know that another one of your first collaborators was Jagged Edge. What was it like working with them in those early days?

Oh, man. I was still living in Colorado and training, but my brother made that connection with the two twins, and their mother, Ms. Casey—God bless her. She's an awesome lady. She came in and just gave us a shot, gave my family a shot. Everybody knew about about Jacob the Jeweler. That man was on top of the world at that time. But for some reason, people always shopped around, and when she came into our place of business, she never left. She loved the fact that we were not in suits. She loved the fact that my parents were here. She loved the fact that this was a family organization. She loved all that because she herself is a family woman. She herself has two kids who are aspiring artists and in a group, so she appreciated that, and she always welcomed us into her home. Shout out to Jagged Edge and Ms. Casey. 

And you can't discredit Dipset. Dipset was living in our place of business. At that time, they were like what the Migos are today. Imagine you go in my store shopping, and next thing you know you see Cam'ron, Jim Jones, Jules Santana. You have no idea what that did to people, and the persona that it brought to our place of business. To this day, they walk in, and people will still be like, "Oh my god!" But then, they were at their peak. They were them dudes at the time. It's just a blessing to have experienced all that. 

Walk me through your creative process.

Well, for example, Tony Sunshine called me and gave me a design as a tribute to his mom. This man reached out to me, and I don't know him—but he knows me. He knew my level of creativity. Doves represent the death of his mom, roses represent the life of his mom. [His design] had one big dove, spread across with the wings, and then five roses underneath the dove. I'm like, "Man, that sh*t is ugly," but whatever, I ain't tell him that. Within 24 hours, I sent him my concept. He was like, "Oh, my God. How the f*ck did you come up with this?" I was like, what do you mean? This is what I get paid for. How does an artist come up with their bangers? So I told him, "You're a creative artist in your own right, and I'm a creative artist in my own right. I don't know how I came up with it. I'm just tuned into that frequency, and it comes to me." He came in on Friday, and he f*cking loved it. His mom just passed not long ago due to this COVID sh*t, so it's very dear to his heart. 

The whole point of that is anybody could have done just the cross, or just the rose. But the creativity of putting all those layers together, the creativity of putting those different metal tones together— not everything is iced out. It's an art piece. I create art. I don't just create jewelry. Obviously, it's a business and I like making money, but at a certain point in your life, any successful person doesn't even do this for the money anymore. They do it for a legacy. 

What have you learned from your now over-20-years of being in business? 

Now, in my 21st year of business, I can happily say that... I'm not a graduate of any sort of college. I'm just a f*cking hardworking man who has goals, and who went through multiple life-or-death situations. With this product, people will kill you for it. I've experienced a lot of trauma because of it. 

The most recent one was my store being robbed. My brother was here, my nephew was here, my son was here, and I was at a gymnastics training session in New Jersey for my daughter. When I got the news, I was devastated. But with everything that's good, bad comes with it, too. You can't be that man without being targeted. Look at this recent Young Dolph situation. The guy is a f*cking superstar, a super successful businessman. People are after what you make. I wake up every day making an honest living, and there are people who wake up every day trying to take what I make, and they'll do it by any means possible. I've experienced three documented circumstances. Once I got robbed in Chicago at the W Hotel. Once there was an attempted robbery, but they tried to kill me first in Miami, at the Hard Rock Casino. They shot my car up 50 times. First, they tried to kill me, then they tried to rob me. I don't know how that works, but thank God for my athletic skills and my sport, because in sports, everything is a split-second decision. If I hadn't made my decision to take my window to get the f*ck out of there, I would have been dead. I wouldn't be sitting here talking. But thank God for the sport, because now I'm alive, and I'm giving it back to my own children, and teaching them and educating them as far as what to expect out of life, and what you need to do to get what you want in life. Same goes for a plethora of employees that have came and gone from my establishment, and are still coming and going. 

Speaking of teaching, you've had a number of mentees along the way, including Elliot Eliantte, another well-known figure in the jewelry industry. Talk about playing that role for others. 

I am aware of why I was put on this earth. A lot of people are still wondering what the f*ck they're doing here, what they were placed here for. I know what I'm here for. I understand it, I see it. I've helped a lot of kids along the way, kids who never had a vision, kids who used to be drug dealers in the street that I took in. I turned them into successful people. Elliot Eliantte was another 17-year-old kid that came under my wings who had nothing to do with anything. He was a local drug dealer I used to buy my weed from in the neighborhood. I took him in, my family and I treated him like a younger brother, we showed him the ropes, and look where he's at today. He's one of the most demanded people in the industry. 

There's a plethora of others that are not as well-known, but they're kids who now have a vision in life. I'm super happy about that. That is my calling— to help kids who were me at one point in life, who didn't have a f*cking vision, who were lost. Now, they have an understanding. There's one kid that I want to speak about in particular. He's new. He's been with us about a year now. And when he first got to us, his mother died from COVID. The kid was from Russia, and he was emotionally broken. But I saw potential in him. God gave me a gift where I can see and understand a person's strong points and a person's weak points. And sometimes, when somebody gives you an extended hand, you don't feel alone in the world. Unfortunately, I can't help everybody. A few months ago, one of my employees got shot and killed. His name was Anthony Muhammad, from the border of Brooklyn and Queens. 

Nobody in my industry is giving people from all walks of life a chance. I have all types of people working for me. I don't see skin color. I don't see ethnicity. I don't see any of that. And I couldn't care less for that. As long as you're a bright person, you can add value to the brand, and I'm going to hire you. I'm going to give you that opportunity. It's your call how you want to take it. 

What's one thing that aspiring jewelers get wrong about the business? 

There are kids who come in here too ambitious. I sense it, and I tell them, "Get the f*ck up out of here. You're not here for Avianne, you're here for yourself." You gotta crawl before you walk. You gotta walk before you run. There's steps to this. There's this kid named Alex Moss. He came in here as a fan. He wanted to be the next Elliot. And I'm telling him, "Yo, before Elliot became Elliot, he was working with me for nine years." You think because you wear nice clothes, people are gonna f*cking approach you? Every time you talk to a customer, you're sweating bullets. You're stuck in the office, hiding behind a f*cking desk. You think that's how you're gonna make it? 

You got to be out in the field. You got to be interacting with people. You can't act like you're a boss. You're not no f*cking boss. You're a nobody. I don't care if your family has billions of dollars. You're in New York City, trying to be in this industry, and the only way to be somebody in this industry is, if people are in the club, you got to be in the club. If people are at concerts, you got to be at concerts. If people are in the strip club, you got to be in the f*cking strip club. I tell this to all my employees. Every two weeks, we have a meeting, and I tell them, "You guys know the difference between a boss and a leader?" Some of them know, some of them don't. A boss sits behind a desk and calls the shots. A leader is in the field with his f*cking team, leading the way! That's the difference. 

Talk about the infamous Bobby Shmurda piece, and how you brought that to life. 

Initially, that piece was not supposed to be for him. That piece initially was supposed to be for Lil Pump. Lil Pump walked into my place of business after already spending, I don't know, a million dollars with us, and he wanted me to create a f*cking chain that said "Lil Pump". I said, "You stupid motherf*cker. Everybody knows who you are. Why the f*ck do you need a chain that says 'Lil Pump'?" He was like, "Alright, Joe, what do you have in mind?" 

When I think about Lil Pump, I think about a shotgun— a pump action shotgun. So the first thing I did was I looked up shotguns, and that was going to be the medallion for the piece. Then I sat here and thought about making the chain the shotgun shell holders. I looked that up, and I drew his sh*t out. Then I wrote the sizes down of everything and decided to put it on paper digitally. It doesn't lay flat on the chest like most chains do, and I wanted to showcase that. So what did I do to do that? I looked up the pharaohs, because that's how they used to wear their chains back in the day. I made about three of these mocks before I created it in real gold and diamonds. The mocks were made in silver; they're called templates. Once I got the chain to sit properly, function properly, I created a proper locking mechanism for it. Then it was ready to be pushed forward, to be created. 

This project took so long that he didn't move forward with it, so what I ended up doing was I just kept it in my safe. I took off the shotgun and kept the link. Then Bobby Shmurda came home. His people I've known for years, and they linked me with him. I never sold it to him as a shotgun shell holder necklace. I sold it to him as a pharaoh, king type of a necklace, because everybody bows down to him. I've seen billionaires bow down to him for his actions. So I told him, "Look, Bobby, I don't know. I see this on you." And he says, "Why do you see this on me?" I was like, "I don't know. You want me to bring it to you so you could see it?" When he tried it on, he played it off like, "Ehh, it's okay. It's cool." And then I was like, "Alright, bet." He's like, "I'll let you know." Soon as I left, he asked me how much. As soon as he asked how much, I was like, "Oh yeah. He loves this sh*t."

There we go!

Yeah, he loved that sh*t. I had it sitting in my safe for about... I would say eight, nine months. I never displayed it because I was waiting for the right person. You cannot just showcase this to anyone and everyone. After everyone's seen it, who the f*ck is gonna want it? You leave stuff like that exclusive. I got plenty of stuff like that, where I design and just hope. Eventually, the right buyer will come, because you shall build, and they shall come. That was the story of making Bobby Shmurda's necklace. There's something else that's very exclusive that I'm making, and that's this watch right here. Everybody is doing the regular Rolex, bussed down APs, Patek, Cartiers, and I just got tired of putting all my creative ideas onto these brands, because I have my own watch brand. All I gotta do is just revamp it. So this is one of the pieces that I'm working on. I'm almost done with it. 

When you come to us, you're not going to get the standard type of links or designs or anything like that. You're going to get something above and beyond. You know what they say: if you want the best pieces of art, you gotta go to the right artists.

I think that speaks on how sacred your craft is. It's crazy that you brought up the pharaohs, because jewelry has always been such a big part of history. If you want to go back to ancient civilizations, jewelry is a lot of what we have left of those time periods. Over Avianne & Co's over 20-year-long run, how does it feel to play that role, and to know that your work is making this historical mark?

It's an amazing feeling. It's an incredible feeling to know that we are the OGs of this game. I went to a wedding last week, and there were a lot of young kids there who were aspiring, just like I used to be young and aspiring—wanting to be successful, wanting to be known. A lot of kids in my industry were coming up to me, shaking my hand, "It's a pleasure to meet you", "It's an honor". I remember trying to do the same with some of the people who I used to look up to, and they were just stuck up there with their nose in the air. 

They allowed the money to make them. There's a difference. My father and my mother always said, "Don't ever allow the money to make you. Always know that you make the money." I'm just glad to know my parents are here with me on a daily basis, continuously supporting mine and my brother's dreams, and constantly keeping us in line. If they see that we're stepping out of line—because, obviously, we're human—they check us, like "What are you doing? That's not how we raised you." Make sure you always be humble, make sure you always understand where you come from, make sure you always know that there are people who are less fortunate than you, make sure you always give back. Make sure you always help. Make sure you always give a helping hand. My parents were always instilling that in us, and now, I'm doing the same thing with my kids. That's crazy. It's crazy how the cycle works.

That's beautiful, to be taught and to teach others to navigate the world in such a grounded way. Going back to Cam’ron, y’all go way back— talk about the current state of your relationship with each other.

The relationship with Cam'ron is amazing. He's like an older brother to me. He's an incredible human being. Down-to-earth, genuine. Every time we link up, it's always nothing but love. It's plenty of times where we seen each other on the road, working—plenty of times. If I'm able to make it to his shows, I'm always attending. If he's able to come support me in what I'm doing, he's always there too. The relationship is nothing but the ultimate brotherhood that we've built over the last two decades… and he loves my parents. That's how I size people up. If they come into my place of business and they don't have respect for my parents, I don't want to do business with you. I don't care if you're spending a sh*tload of money. I don't care for that—if you have no respect for my mom and my dad, I don't want to know you. Go on about your business. You can move on. There's plenty of other people you can buy stuff from. We're very big on that. Everybody has their own principles and moral values, and that's ours. We're big on that respect factor. 

Speaking of Cam'ron, you worked with the Safdie brothers to help shape Adam Sandler's character of Howard Ratner in Uncut Gems. I know that must have been a really special moment for y'all, working with another pair of brothers.

Again, that's thanks to Cam'ron. He was supposed to be in that movie, I don't know what happened, but he's the one who brought the Safdie brothers to us. He put us on the phone, brought Adam Sandler here, and Adam Sandler mimicked us, with the Cartier glasses and how he's talking with his hands. For about 60 days or so, he was with Izzy, my brother, learning how to buy diamonds, sell diamonds, and call up the diamond dealers. That movie was basically our likeness. That was us that they got for free. All the pictures that you saw in his office, of all the celebrities with [Howard]—that's all our pictures. They just edited our faces out. Working with them was incredible. My nephew got his first major role as Adam Sandler's son in the movie. You can't ask for anything more. They gave us the credits. We appreciate relationships. We loved it. Adam Sandler is a great guy, super down-to-earth, super talented. That whole production team, amazing people. The Safdie brothers, super intelligent people, super nice. They definitely know what they're doing.

Wrapping up here, you— and Cam'ron— have said a number of times that Avianne & Co are the originators of this generation, in terms of the creativity and thoughtfulness that goes into your pieces. What do you want Avianne & Co's legacy to look like? 

The problem is, not everybody challenges themselves. No matter what industry you're in, you always have to challenge yourself—no matter if you're in basketball, if you're in football, if you're in music, if you're in clothes. That's what I want to be known for. I want to be known for never being afraid of challenging myself within our industry, and that we're capable of doing everything and anything our way—not what the rest of the people are doing. We create the trend. We create the standard. Before we came into play, everybody was doing their regular sh*t. We introduced enamel into the industry. We introduced the new diamond setting, which they now call flower setting. We introduced innovation. We introduced creativity. We introduced making pieces of art. We even made it fun to not be greedy, and let people in from different walks of life. We give kids an opportunity. Because of that, we've turned a dream into a reality, which is a multi-million dollar organization—and anyone is more than welcome to come on in.